Video Testimonial: Rs. 6 Lakh per Acre from Natural Farming

These two things are not really different, what is quoted is potential income, he does not earn so much, so it is not his practical experience which is spoken there. When i said, it is potential income, i did not really mean it would be his income in the future. I would always want to believe, farmers earn more, but then, in practice, there is difference between theory and practice, though in theory, these are same.

I did not see the potential in his farm, incomes that is talked about, for pepper, ginger, coco, musambi etc are not there or i would say, he does not harvest these and get it the income for it. Only thing that would fetch him money is coconut, arecanut and banana.

In that message i also wrote “When asked about the yield, he did not really answer the question, in turn he asked the people to count the number of canes and their approx weight and apply it to the whole area ( smart ?). And as always people counted high number.”

I being a farmer (really?), and seen farming over the years do not count any of those fancy numbers. If you want to be very specific and need word to word comparison, i could do, but that is not the idea. Just for test you see the mention of 5 acres in the video, whereas, he said it is little less then a acre.

Important thing i wanted to convey to all those people who want to start farming is that please do not go by these figures, my intention is not to discourage anyone from farming, be realistic. I am yet to come across any person who earns 6 lakhs on a acre of land, only with farming, specifically only with these crops.

Thanks Narasinga.

As i learn, he does not have shortage of water, in fact he has in abundance, if you see the pictures you will realize that his farm is surrounded by paddy fields and its has standing water all through.

Very true, i sincerely believe this forum is to learn/share/guide/and be guided, but this kind of exaggeration make me feel we are being misguided.

I am you will not be able to market the main cash crops, areca and cocunut as organic. Banana, to some extent is fine. And then other things in his farm, like ginger, pepper, musumbi, cococ etc are not really harvested.

I wish all farmers get this type of income.

When i wrote earlier, i just reported as it was told to me, it was a report from a farm visit. I also mentioned that he avoided the question on farm yield and the prices. What i meant by “potential” was as per his calculation, what i mean by “not practical” is because he does not get it.

This exaggeration seems to be a common among palekar farmers. I feel very sad about it. I know a few guys who quit their jobs in a hurry based on a palekar’s claims in a workshop. This is not doing anyone any good. And by the way Palekar is not a practicing farmer.

Like Hegde says this has to be a place to openly discuss rather than claim fancy numbers.

I’m a big believer in multi-cropping, mulch, using local resources to improve soil fertility and preserving native cows etc., I dislike Palekar and his students attitude for such reasons. I have all his books and they are hardly readable and one can summarize them in 20 or 30 pages. I also do not like him cursing other types of organic farming and things like vermicompost etc., Someone has to call his bluff someday.

I urge all forum members to be skeptical of very high income/profitability numbers and be realistic. Study everything and proceed based on good on the ground research.

I wish you said, i am on the side of “facts” rather than newbie or anyone :wink:

No dispute on these numbers on paper, but then the question is “is he getting it?”

Sri, sorry if i gave a number, that was not intention to give one more calculation. But then, let me give the idea why did i approximate to that number. I considered only areca, cocunut and banana ( you can take your calculation here) and other crops were not really harvested. I tend to think it was not harvested as harvesting and selling would be more expensive than leaving it alone.

Am i claiming above calculations are wrong? No these are perfect. But, then please show me a person who has achieved this. After visiting his farm, i don’t agree he has achieved anywhere near.

Thanks Narsinga, i am all for learn and share.

One thing i seriously believe about Palekar is, he has given a proper thinking process to farmers and guided them into organic farming. There are lots of his follower who are doing organic farming successfully.

Very true, be realistic. Only believe those numbers which is really maintained by farmers who are practicing.

Folks,

The number 6 lakh per acre made my eyes pop out. If it’s possible to make that figure even 5 years down the line, I’ll retire from IT today!

Sri, although the number of trees/plant per acre you quoted is true, the yield and the price (in some cases, like banana) was probably optimistic. This is what I am getting or my relatives are getting on their farms in the Malnad region

  1. Coconut - 33 trees X avg of 40 nuts per tree (i am at 24!). Selling price varies between 5-8 ( i sell to end users, so I get a fair deal)
  2. Banana - 528 treesX average 10 kilos per tree. Selling price of 12-26. Now the going price is 5 for G9 and 10 for puttabaaLe in Tirthahalli
  3. Areca - 528 trees X average 10 kilos of raw nuts (I am getting about 4 kilos on average as the plantation was badly maintained for 10 years before I bought it)
  4. Pepper - my creepers are just 1 year old, so they haven’t yielded. No idea about average yields, but I am 100% sure that your calculations were again optimistic.
  5. Coffee - again, I have only a few plants that haven’t yielded at all… :frowning:

So if you calculate with my numbers, your calculation will come down to a more modest 2 lakh odd per acre. That again is ideal coz I have never personally earned more than a lakh from the 3 acre odd plantation I have.

In fact, Hegde and I have been looking for natural farmers who earn at least a lakh per acre and we haven’t met one who showed us the farm and justified the calculations. We have seen Swamy here on the forum who has told us that he has made more than a lakh per acre (and we trust him).

My intention is not to burst anybody’s balloons here and I am sorry if I come across as a little pessimistic, but if you ask me, a lakh per acre is a good goal and if you are making it, consider yourself a very successful natural farmer! :slight_smile:

Cheers,
AK

This was said on lighter note. I certainly respect your view, sri and newbie.

Hegde, we’re all on the side of facts. There are no religious fanatics here. It’s good to have the clarification from your end. I don’t know how old Krishnappa’s farm is but I think the jury is still out on whether the pattern should be recommended or not. One thing can be said that it’s definitely not as rosy as the video portrays.

AK, thanks for sharing your experience. One question - do you practice natural farming methods?

Narasinga, it’s right to remain skeptical until proven otherwise but it’s also unfair to disparage someone who has done incalculable good to the Indian farming community.

Dear All,

Lets keep Sri.Palekar and Sri.Krishnappa Aside for a while.

As newbie said, let us discuss the + and - 's of so called 5 layer model.

What is technically wrong with it. Spacing? tree combination? insufficient manuring(only jeevamritha)?

AK,GG,
We will do a small excercise, I will collect black pepper,arecanut and cocnut yeild censes. You both belong to other end of Malnad, I belong to this end of Malnad which will give fair yeild. We will have an average yeild.

Yeild must be per plant basis or on average on the perticular farm.Let us take our time as two months. We will collect yeild info from atleast 20-25 farmers. These farmers must be dependent only on his farms earnings(reason is he will try to increase yeild by hook or crook, if he has extra income he wouldnt have bothered about his yeild)

Newbie:
Sri.Krishnappa’s Farm is 6 year old.

The whole idea of this discussion and activity must be leaving a firm and clear foot prints for next generation wannabe farmers. Any new ideas are welcome.

Sri/ Newbie,

Hegde and I are not disputing the validity of the 5 layer model or natural farming. The 5 layer model is a good model and must definitely be followed to maximize yield per acre and also to derisk against pests and diseases. Natural Farming is also a good method of cultivation and definitely better than spraying chemicals indiscriminately and killing life.

What we are disputing is the figure of 6 lakhs per acre or even 2 lakhs per acre. We see a pattern where natural farmers are overselling this model in their enthusiasm (I am sure they have no ulterior motive). We, as new entrants should be careful and take these yield claims with a pnch of salt, that’s all.

Newbie,

I try to follow natural farming methods to the maximum extent possible. I have a local breed of cow and we religiously use Jeevamrutha once a month. We do not use any other chemical fertilizer. We have not used any pesticide so far, unfortunately, I had to use some weedicide to get rid of some stubborn Lemon Grass on my plot which did not submit to any organic method. So, to that extent, my methods are natural. :slight_smile:

Also, this is what I have learnt from experience in the last 3 years:

  1. One cannot avoid chemicals completely. Just like in humans, when diseases go out of control, chemicals are necessary to help sustain life. We have to build immunity with good food, can’t expect medicines to sustain us without food. It is the same for plants.
  2. A balanced view is necessary. We should not go overboard on either techniques (chemical & natural)
  3. There cannot be a magic formula that applies to all. The soil, water, wind, sunlight conditions for each farm differs. We have to be guided by some generic principles but must develop a method for our individual farms based on continuous observation.

Thanks,
AK

Dear Newbie…I do not want to make a personal attack on Palekar or his students. I want to question his claims and writing. We all know his views on other forms of organic farming and his general attitude of what is the only form of truth. We only hear positive stories of Palekar success but I had to misfortune to have met farmers who have given up palaker and to make things worst have turned to chemical because their soil was not getting better by just jeevamrutha. Anyways its for another day.

Again I’m want all of us to question, think and evolve and I think questioning your mentor is also the same thing.

Dear Sri…As you know yield is highly variable from farm to farm and in fact plant to plant in the same farm. We all need some yardstick to plan and go about. For that I think we should be conservative and take avg to low yeilds and this makes us prudent.

In terms of the 5 layer model it is very interesting and my reservations are more economical viability rather than anything technical.

I think we’re all coming back to the question of how much yield is possible with the 5 layer model / cropping pattern which only time will settle.

AK I do not agree that it’s not possible to be completely natural because many many farmers are practicing the same and thriving. As to dealing with weeds, did you try mulching the area?

Narasinga, I’m all for questioning the teacher. Please do share the story of farmers who suffered losses by practicing Palekar’s method. I’ve never heard of such a case. I’d like to know how they followed it and what was the reason for the failure.

There is nothing wrong in this, i think this is one of the good ways, i support this method, in fact we practice traditional farming which is similar to this[but much older practice]. If you refer this thread [farmnest.com/forum/natural-farming-organic-farming/is-organic-farming-natural-farming-practical/], sustainability and scalability is discussed upto certain extent.

My grievance is on the projected figures, i think by giving these figures we are misguiding the wannabe farmers. I feel these looks like a marketing gimmick, whereas we need to be talking about actual numbers rather than potential numbers. This reminds me of mileage runs conducted by automobile companies, in those runs, even Bolero gives you 38 kmpl whereas actual running mileage is in the range of 8-9kmpl, would we want anyone to make buying decision on that?. Buying decision is made on its actual running mileage, and this is good for lots an lots of people. Even Palekar method is very good, practicing farmers are really benifitted by it.

Don’t you think we could get district wise data on these corps in relevant departments? Anything nearing the average (+ or -), would be good data for us to compare. Without the hassles of chemical farming this would amounts to better comparative income.

Hi Newbie…There are 6 farmers I know that have moved away from Palekar and 2 have modified the method. I think I’m unable to make my point effectively here. The point is that there is no one best way of farming/organic farming. And Palekars insistence that his method is the only universal truth is what I don’t appreciate. Why spread factual inaccuracies about vermicompost and other such things.

Regarding the 5 layer model. It seems that Krishnappa has implemented it, why does he not come out with yield & revenue data from the past 5 years, why does he dodge the question. The same with his sugarcane model. Let me give you a contrasting example. There is a sugarcane farmer called Suresh Desai, of-course he is an organic farmer and developed a water efficient way of growing sugarcane with inter-crops. He clearly demonstrates that hard data backed by experience of income and costs. I’m trying to get his presentation and will post it here for record.

If I’m claiming an income of 6 laks per acre, the burden of proof is on me and I have to present the data. Why don’t people question Krishnappa and request him to explain.

Due see the danger of exaggerated claims ?

adding that,

make own study, gather all knowledge, refine it and do whatever method feel to fit in small area of own farm as an experience. if success then switch over to entire farm gradually. we have classic examples of Savera farms, and others.

from my understanding, Palekar method is more or same of mirror image the ecological science prevailing in forest. we can not entirely copy life style of tribes to urban or vice verse. if we compare life of tribes it may seems more healthy, less expensive but same time life productivity in our eyes less. We are trying to copy tribes life targeting monitory yield of an urban people. Some time I feel the same view on palekar method.

better we blend it more better way to get an optimum sustainability, viability and optimum results

rds
mathew

Guys,

This is how I have understood it:

Every farm has an innate productivity based on a number of factors (soil, water, sunlight, wind). To think that the farmer is responsible for the yield on his/her farm is nothing short of arrogance. Human effort is one of the contributing factors. You can marginally improve/ decrease this productivity by human efforts (/lack of it) - natural/ chemical. Doesn’t matter.

You take two plots of the same size in two different places, plant the same crops, apply the same methodology (natural/ chemical), provide similar amounts of water and I am sure you will get two different yields.

What is of utmost importance is the fact that you are enjoying what you are doing, trying to add value to the environment around you by not polluting and at the same time, making a decent living out of your efforts. That’s all that matters. Compare your yields with your neighbors and if you are producing on par or better than the surrounding farms, you are doing well! Don’t set targets and get disappointed.

In the end analysis, doen’t matter how much you feed or what you feed a Malenadu Gidda cow, it won’t yield 25 litres a day like a HF/ Jersey! You can make it the best Malenadu Gidda cow around and be proud of the fact. :stuck_out_tongue:

Is it possible to share contact details of farmers. I want to go bottom of this. Please PM me the contact details.

I am neither Sri. Palekars student nor follower. I am on the persuit of truth. None of you broke my heart :slight_smile:. In fact I am thank full for you all for the prallell thinking.

Why I was convinced with sri.Palekar method is :
1.The method is cheap, natural, less labour intesive etc.
2. Making the land fertile with populating microorganisms. He has re-invented the wheel.
3.There is another Pinoy(philiphines) method similar to this. They prepare IMO which works like jeevamrith check below link for alternative methods car.da.gov.ph/index.php?option=c … mitstart=2

I condemn sri.palekars habit of criticising organic farmers and university staff with stong words.
I agree the point Sri.Palekars 5 books can be compressed and made one book. Lot of points are repeated again and again and again… :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

Good discussion and nice perspectives!
Why not the Bangalore folks team up to visit the farms and ‘plough out’ the facts? I know subramanian.g.r was already doing something on those lines: farmnest.com/forum/new-trends-in … rm-trail!/

For some reason my reply is not be seen in the thread! May I forgot to hit the Post button…:frowning:

I need to leave right now and came online for a quick glance of the discussion…:slight_smile:

My take is that the numbers are way too exaggerated and if Mr. Krishnappa or anyone else claims to earn 6 Lahks/Acre then they would be living in a mansion and driving a Porsche!

Anyways good discussion and some well thought out points!

I would also be interested to know what failed in Palekar’s method since I just started implementing the same. I would like to learn from the mistake the other 6 farmer friends committed.

Thanks
Biju