I am planning to set up a farm based on the principles of Shri Save ,Fukuoka san etc on a 10 acre piece of land about 100 km from Mumbai. It will be totally organic with mulching,no fertiliser,no pesticides,no tilling being the basic principles. Things have been delayed a bit because while I have registered 3 acres the adjoining land has still to be registered(buying agricultural land in our state is like moving through a mine field).
I will update on my progress once my farm gets rolling.
Regards,
Yaj.
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Afterall we are using these chemicals for last 50 years and during these 50 years we damaged the soil considrabley. befroe 50 years only natural manures used. of course then the production was also poor and requirement was allso low as the population was less. we had to imprt food grains in 60s and US exported all their rubbish. New seeds developed and they required more NPK and we imprteed pests too. now our people realised the fact that chemicals damage the soil and psticides damage the environement by killing several useful creatures. panchagavya and neem oil replaced pesticides to some extent
and vermiculture and other natural manures are replacing the chemicals fertilisers. first the soil will be good and useful bacteria and creatures will survive. we will be healtheir and can avoid some diseases like cancer . it is possible and cost wise economical. too much use of chemical fertilisers are attracting pests and this can be avoided.
Hi Yaj,
How is your progress through the minefield? 
Still negotiating my way through. I hope I get it done before the monsoons or I will miss another season 
Regards,
Yaj.
workshops, training in cities etc, blogs, pictures, videos etc., books etc are not the answers for development of organic farming.
most people who are writing on such topics appear to be city living people with very little field level/practical experience/exposure in agriculture.
the need of the hour is field level practical work and the success of the same at all levels of agriculture right from ploughing till the harvest.
then one will understand which method is feasible.
many so called natural farming experts do not have any experience at the field level for five or more years continuously. if they had it they would have never had these versions.
if the methods of subhash palekarji is so efficient in practical, the question is why not even a single person in his village near akola is not adopting the same.
why many farmers in karnataka who converted into natural farming enmasse with a lot of fanfare and publicity reverted to chemical farming enmasse.
why this method with such a lot of publicity has failed to spread all over india.
let us first understand the practical feasibilities.
let no one argue .
Mod note: split from zero budget workshop announcement
My views :
People know that it works(Excellent in Horticulture). People know that its the best way of cultivation(poisonless). But why they are not embracing?
1.Donāt want to change from status quo methods. They just donāt think about it.
2.Scared of whether it will really work for me. They know that it has worked for someone else but will it work for me? Doubtful
3.Chemical farming made farmer lazy. Ex. Farmers spend 1000ās on weedkiller but they can spend that same money on mulching which has got 50 other benefits apart from stopping weeds.
4. Mindset problem : Well it is something like people know about cigarettes & drinking but still go with it.
5.Strong Natural/organic farming support system not present. Support system is very good for chemical because its fully commercial 
. Sri Palekarji is doing a great job but lot more needed.
6.Strong networking needed among Natural/organic farmers.Because chemical pesticide companies try to pull you back.
Thanks,
Seshu
one merthod would be all the interested people to buy a land of about 50-100 acres, start organic farming. have a hands on experience. that would be an ideal model for everyone.
palekarji was offered money,land, infrastructure in many places to sit there for three to five years and implement the methods he was/is talking to be a model for the whole world. but, he refused to take the offer. this was in 2000-2002 in vidharbha, paschim maharastra. the same was offered to him in 2005-2007 in hale mysuru area, uttara karnataka.
in vidharbha the agriculture is in total distress. it is loss in all types of farming. if one mulches in rainy season there will be blister for crops. if one mulches in summer the dry mulch will catch fire and the whole plantation gets burnt. so, how is mulching helpful in such an area?
what about plant protection? cotton is having many problems of pests and diseases in vidharbha. even BT cotton has lalbimari?
the need of the hour is a practical demonstration of holistic remedy for agriculture whether chemical or organic.
if any one can do it, that will be the ideal and not any other things.
Thanks keshavapuriji for your reply & insights into Vidarbha regionās water shortage.
Well my take would be to take things/practices from palekarji that suits our region/crop.
Not everything is guaranteed.
If you have not read this try looking into it. Agri student does some postmortem on Palekarās method :
google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ā¦ 9w&cad=rja
Please go through the entire article (paper) when you have timeā¦
The banes of Chemical farming are apparent but also have been proved by a study by TISS.
The need to search for alternates has been demanding for longā¦
Best,
āramsaiā
Causes of Farmer Suicides in Maharashtra.zip (177 KB)
From earlier discussions, I recollect keshavapuri is not against natural/organic farming. However he believes in a different āgenreā of it as against the other methodologies, to the best of my knowledge.
Great to see the healthy discussion on ātechniques-other-thanā Chemical farming.
Have been following (observing) the Natural Farming mothodologies for three years and feel that is the way to go going forward since there is no other option.
Few models of Natural Farming:
- Raju Titus, Hoshangabad, a pioneer in Masanobu Fukuokaās Natural Farming. He has been following the methodology for the past 20 years and we could have a look at his farm on wikimapia/google maps as well (the difference between his land and those adjacent to his is quite apparent!!).
Visit his picture gallery at: picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
-
Kailashmurthy, Kollegal, Karnataka. He again is a practitioner of Masanobu Fukuokaās Natural Farming techniques.
Know about him and his farm at: the-anf dot org (not working now) -
Krishnappa Dasappa Gowda, Bannur, Mandya dist: a pioneer in Subhash Palekarās Natural Farming methodology:
picasaweb.google.com/1119047442 ā¦ Puh96c2gE#
These are the pics that I clicked 3years ago when I visited. I believe the health of this farm has further increased considerably. Hope to visit this farm again and would share the pics as soon as I have.
It is ironical that we continue to seek for proofs and are blind to all the good that is happening around us. There are many more successful farms which could provide us sufficient motivation and confidence on Natural Farming.
Best,
āramsaiā
all the three locations and farmers are well known. their problems are also well known. it needs a different inlook to understand their problems. externally it appears good. but, the latent problems have increased for them. this is the practical problem.
in vidharbha you can find more than one natural farming/organic farming experts for every one farmer. but no one practices them in their field. all of them give very good lectures, pictures, seminars, conferences, tours etc., i know them very well from their inside. they agree that natural/organic farming is only for taking subsidies from the government/funding agencies for anything except farming. palekarji is also one such person who is also very well known to me. the movement of organic/natural farming started in vidharbha in 1990 when no one was aware of organic farming. one of the oldest organic farming associations is in vidharbha. but, they get funding from many people for all other things other than farming. and the field level implementation is absolutely zero.
what the country needs is a field level demonstration on a large scale. we need organic food at lower cost than the chemical food. the PDS supply should be only organic food. we do not need any foreign certifying agency to certify our organic food chain. this is the need of the hour and not the seminars, pictures, websites, arguments.
who will bell this cat? let no one misunderstand. please think as the country as a whole.
Organic or natural farming was being practised much before 1990. Shri Bhaskar Save has been practising it for more than 35 years. I have been to his farm and can vouch for his methods. What about before the so called green revolution? Wasnāt all farming in India organic? Wasnāt it enough to build one of the largest populations of any culture only second to the chinese? In fact i think natural farming works best on small scale integrated farms with a variety of produce and livestock. Making large so called organic farms will again be like āfactory farmingā which would be a self defeating exercise.
Regards,
Yaj.
Thanks keshavapuri, for the different perspective and at the same time, your hope for a wider implementation of this type of farming. However, you will need to support some of the statements with information or proof.
Can you please list out the problems. I should admit I do not know them and it would be nice to discuss them.
Kindly furnish proof or supporting information.
Should the field level demonstration apply a different model to be viable? I know you have a different model of natural/organic farming in mind - if that is correct, please do post how differently should organic farming be practised to be successful. That said, seminars, pictures, websites and arguments only support to bring out the reality to the wider public as long as they carry the unbiassed truth!
Also, what is your opinion on the experiences of actual farmers who shared their successes here?
Thanks.
I am also in the same boat as you are in. The wait is killing me. I hope why things are not so easy in case of lands. 
How good had it been like buying and selling automobiles. One needs atleast 10 different documents to ascertain the ownership in case of Agri Lands . One needs an āAnnaā in this field also 
.
Regards
Murali Nakshatri
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Plz bear with me for this long post.
The reasons behind non conversion to natural farming are:
- Mindset of people (like Mr Keshavapuri ?) who do not learn to āunlearn wrong thingsā !
- Fear of loss of crops in the intervening period of switch over.
- Prejudiced view that natural farming would not suit them and affect farm output.
- Apprehension that natural farming will not last long and losses would mount over a period of time.
- The so called educated post graduate agri officers know more and better than natural farmers.
- Unwilling to make the change first and waiting for knowing othersā results and find a chance to bash them at their failures.
Let me elaborate.
Changing the mindset is one of the biggest impediments one has to overcome.
When i bought a small piece of land and announced that I am straightaway going in for natural farming , I was laughed at by all and sundry . Comments were passed that I were a crack and didnāt know the abc of farming. My first crop was a total failure because of my half baked approach and my helperās non-cooperation.
For the next season , I did my home work thoroughly and went ahead unmindful of the comments of the fellow villagers. I applied no fertilisers , pesticides of any kind at any stage of the crops. I still remember people laughing at seeing rice seeds scattered on the soil over urea bags. And there was more laughter when they saw that my seed bed was not made muddy but it was sprayed with water just twice a day. When the transplanting was done on the 21 st day , villagers commented that I was wasting my money. All I did was just ensured that water was applied when the soil became dry and not before. Just after 3 waterings , the rain season started and the rice crops wre in water for the rest of the period. All nearby farms were under chemical farming and when there was a let up of rain , I saw each and every farmer spraying all kinds of pesticides to control insects which started to attack the standing rice crops. Still i resisted applying any kind of pesticide and people laughed at me and commented that I was growing rice not for peopleās use but for pests. Soon they noted that pest attack was minimum in my farm and they quarreled with the pesticide dealer that he had supplied inferior quality of pesticides to them because even after 3 times spraying of pesticides their farms were more affected by pests than mine. One remarked that all the pesticides were washed by rain water and got accumulated in my farm and that was the reason that my farm was safe . When my care taker told them that my farm was just the second one from the up side and all other farms were below mine due to natural gradient , they became speechless. Comments stopped for a while and one remarked that they would talk just after harvest.
With machine harvest (due to paucity of labour) I got 6 bags of rice for 29 cents of land while my neighbour got 10 bags (slightly larger area under chemical farming). But when they worked out the cost involved , mine was the least expensive and the quality of rice is superior to all othersā output. The rice planted was CO 43 a hybrid variety which was sown by the majority of the farmers in that area including me.
After seeing this , one farmer has come forward to use just 33 cents of his farm to try natural farming. As per the practice in our area , they are keeping the farms barren saying nothing would come out successful because of the type of soil and water quality. Still I have challenged them by scattering black gram seeds last week over the wet field. We are waiting for a couple of months to roll by to see the results. Even if I donāt get anything from the black gram cultivation , i stand to gain because black gram will stabilize nitrogen content in my farm which will be useful for the next rice crops.
Regarding fear of loss , I have to admit that the farm output is less when compared to chemical farming at least in the initial stages. The farmers have their minds set on the volume of grains they get during harvest but they were conveniently made to forget the costs involved . While the per bag cost is less and net profit is larger in natural farming , farmers get carried away by the quantum of harvest. And the output starts to diminish soon after reaching a plateau. So cost wise natural farming is more profitable than chemical farming.
The farmers think that they have been farming since ages and so they are in a better position to asses the land , soil and water quality . While this may be true to some extent , they are in a groove and donāt change so easily . And there are possibilities to change the soil type naturally but they donāt give a try. They are afraid of being laughed at if they fail in their trials. This is the mentality of villagers which has to change.
The methods involved in natural farming are very simple and the villagers , having been used to rough and tough toiling , are not ready that such simple methods could change their fortune. As a test case I have taken up natural farming with no regular work in my farm and want them to see the results themselves.
The agricultural officers , having learned chemical farming through agricultural universities with limited field experience , alway repeat parrot like what they were told to tell farmers by the government. the ministers and politicians are controlled by fertliser companies with big commissions and other costly presents and so the governments become the mouth piece of the chemical companies. Take the case of the ineffectiveness of the BT cotton seeds in tackling the pests . The promoting company had publicly accepted that the first generation BT seeds were a failure and that they have brought out a newer and better variety of BT seeds . Think for a moment the plight of farmers who relied on these first generation seeds . And the suicides of cotton farmers who relied on these seeds should not be shocking . There are countless varieties of seeds of various crops which are region specific and season specific pest and drought resistant , but a majority of all these seeds are nearing extinction unable to counter the onslaught of seed companies.
These are my first hand experience and I need no certification from anybody. It is easier to ask people to change than to be the change . And I for one , am interested in being the change and not the caller. Thatās why I have taken to farming having still ten years of banking service under my belt and with no prior experience in farming of any kind.
Constructive comments are always welcome . And pessimists , do keep off.
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Thanks Varaahan for sharing , Your story is inspiring.
I know the ordeal one has to go through to do Natural farming (which was a de facto technique 5 decades back). Thatās good greater the discouragement from others greater should be our conviction. Thatās what you have shown.
Thanks,
Seshu
Mod edit: split from farmnest.com/forum/general-discu ā¦ 0/#msg1350
Dear Varaahan,
Thanks for your suggestion. I was also planning to go in ZB method. But I have a practical problem here. My interest are to go in for TC Banana (G9) in the initial years to sustain myself. 
But all the so called TC labs dealing with this G9 banana are silent when asked about the TC plants response under Organic Farming. Not one is able to show me some one growing their TC plants under natural farming methods. Most of these labs insist on following their āadvisedā methodologies ie pumping with heavy doses of NPK thru, drip feeders .
I will update as things progress. Any idea what to do with those jali plants. Planning to use it as material for Vermicompost. but have my own doubt whether those worms can devour the thorns.
Regards
Murali
Donāt be carried away by the vested commercial interests of the so called agri experts. Just challenge them to assure you of the output and they will back off. This has happened in the case of Ashok Sanghvi , the author of " The way to health , wealth and happiness" .
In vermicompost the use of imported earth worm brings in heavy metals like mercury in bio soluble form in the final product which is detrimental to our health . So stay off from this.
This gives you just two options 1. Masanobu Fukuokaās no till natural farming and 2. Subash Palekarās Zero Budget Natural farming.
In Fukuokaās method all you do is just wet the field , scatter the germinated seeds and mulch the field with straw or grass. This is the easiest method to do and though the farm output is somewhat lower in the initial one or two seasons, this gives maximum soil fertility .
In Palekarās ZBF tilling may or may not be carried out and the traditional labour intensive practices may be followed . The highlight is the use of Jeevamrutham and Gana Jeevamrutham .
My suggestion would be to combine both. As you are interested in banana cultivation , Iād suggest the following:
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Select a suitable banana variety like Poovan , Peyan, Sevvazhai, Rasthali, Nendran, Karpuravalli, Monthan, Basrai, Robusta, Amrithpani, Yenagu Bontha etc.
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Select a suitable planting pattern . For eg: dig a trench for watering and 4.5 feet from the centre of this trench on either side , plant the banana at 4.5 feet intervals. This distance is somewhat higher but this gives the plants the much needed sunlight in abundance.
3.Always do multicropping with banana. Planting of a leguminous plant like green gram , bengal gram etc. is a must. This helps in nitrogen fixation and also provides the much needed green cover. Apart from this you can plant drumstick, onion, pigeon pea , chillies , tomato etc which come up well in shade. This gives you additional income too. Treat the seeds , banana suckers with Bijamritha before planting.
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Always allow the farm to dry before giving watering in the next course . This alternate drying and wetting pattern will give the roots the much needed moisture and air passage . And a suitable micro climate will be created for the earth worms and other microbes to grow in freely.
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Apply Jeevamrutha once in fifteen days.
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immediately after planting, keep the farm mulched with straw or grass completely.
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Weeds and grass may be cut and scattered and this will provide additional mulch.
With this method , you should be able to get a reasonably profitable crop.
Good luck.
Boovarahan s
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