Is Organic Farming / Natural Farming practical?

organic-farming

#201

[color=brown]
Mod Note
@RAMU
How did you conclude varaahan knows the least about farming? Who is croaking? How did you determine other members have no practical knowledge? Your story about the tea shop conversation is cinematic - but did you follow it happening in real? Your generic comments make your whole argument generic and weak. If, as you say, you have nothing to listen from others, why discuss?

Please note any more personal attacks will attract a ban. While you are free to argue for or against natural/organic farming in a civil manner as much as you like, no personal attacks are tolerated.

Your argument cannot be your degrees or years of experience or possibly your fertigation business. You have not answered if you actually farm or are more in a consulting role. I do not see any substantiation or facts and figures from you so far that you ask everyone else, which is not useful. Please explain instead why organic won’t work from your experience and what kind of failures you have seen.

Thanks for understanding.[/color]


#202

Dear mr.Chandra!
                            you are right that I am wasting my precious time on useless discussion.I decided long before to block myself from this forum. I dont think it is not too late now that I do it right now.


#203

@RAMU

Sorry to see that you have decided to leave. Feel free to come back and contribute when you are comfortable again.

You will understand we will all have to stick to some rules and respect when we are on a forum like this.

Thanks.


#204

I am sad that one of our members had decided to leave. Though we have difference of opinion , leaving a forum while discussing an important issue is not in good taste . As Chandra has rightly said , the forum is open to Mr Ramu , should he decide to come back after some time. Still we will be having questions and doubts which Mr Ramu may care to address / answer .

Personally I am against chemical farming , though I have not practiced it. I am not an advocate of organic / natural-farming but definitely I am against chemical farming. In that sense I have a bias against chemical farming but that doesn’t mean that I am not open to discussion . And a good number of present day organic / natural farmers were learned men in the so called modern chemical farming ,  like Sri Subash Palekar , Sri Nammazhwar who hold degrees in agriculture . When such people who have both academic proficiency / degree and also practical experience in chemical farming have turned to organic methods , there is no point in sticking to chemical farming any more. There are countless farmers who have ditched chemical farming and turned to organic farming. These men may not hold degrees but they have practical experience and reaped profit by adopting natural / organic farming methods. The fortnightly magazine " Pasumai Vikatan " catalogs and publishes the experiences of such farmers in every issue.

Still some people turn a blind eye to changes .


#205

Thanks Chandra for coming in between. I was about to write something to Ramu as his response is completely bias, baseless and smells rude.

Thanks @varaahan for your detailed response and I agree that Organic and Natural farming is the way to go. I have been doing research and analysis for last 6-9 months about farming and have zeroed in to Natural Farming.

My last few months (3-4) experience support my conclusion and if someone doubt, watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_TCPy9_nP18 where I have shown a chemical farming field of my neighbor and Natural farming field of mine. Anyone can come to the conclusion after seeing the video.

I agree that 3-4 months is not good time to pat on but at least it supports my conclusion that Natural/Organic farming is the way to go.

Here is the complete post related with above Video - http://www.rameshwari.com/2012/10/lady-finger-grown-natural-farming-way.html

Good luck everyone and keep doing natural / organic farming!


#206

Ramu,
You are the one who posing as Farm Expert here & the so called expertise knowledge within you is also came from books, How you have got knowledge without books? The knowledge owning by you is also is from someone’s lessons/advice, but not your own. Remember your primary school teacher how you learned ABCD? Have you learned the language without believing your teacher?
If you are thinking to not take any ones advise than you should not advise anything to any one please note.

No other member here is posing as Farm Expert like you and you are delivering your expertise here in computer itself without practical knowledge, we can adopt your expertise if really you have an expertise, You should come with facts and figures. I know people like you come a day like this, therefore I have already posted my farming facts & figures in this forum in different replays, you can check it and take count of it before replying with false statement.

How you have seen/know 200000 farmers without going to their  lands? Have seen them in computer or any others list  or have asked them to come to you along with their lands and crops to show you?
How you know Kanyakumari to Bidar without you going to the place where farming activity was taken place?
If answer yes traveled, then your statement is wrong, If no, then it is evident that you are internet farmer who can do the farming in key board itself. You know you cannot survive without going anywhere to approach any one to survive yourself.

Again Iam asking if you are real champion, you to come up with facts and figures along with photos or any authenticated proof that your farming practice is good? You only the person mentioned the word champion if you are real champ then come up with only proofs not with words to disturb others.

You know the same cow dung applied to clean the place where you born/when you entered in to this universe, you can check with your parents/elders.

You know History was time tested and concluded with certain facts, “The continuum of events occurring in succession leading from the past to the present and even into the future”.

You the person boasting yourself as an Farm expert & you croaked like an Farm expert with selfish motive of earning false fame and name, ultimately you are getting blame.

So my dear Ramu! you don’t engage yourself in useless deliberation. You please answer to all with due diligence & come up with true answers then let us discuss who the real champion is to benefit self and others who can accept it for their benefit.

Now you need to answer the members along with moderators of this forum tag, if no answer then quit.


#207

Please check

youtube.com/watch?v=VopygNRXu7w


#208

Have read with great interest, especially Swamy, Le, and Ramu’s comments and others like Cowherd on other posts. Organic/natural farming appeals to me emotionally and rationally, but is it practical. That of course, is the title of this topic and I am still trying to figure it out. Conflicting arguments but both sides make sense. In this context there was in todays (28/10/12) Sunday Times of India an article by Swaminathan Aiyar - a writer whose views I respect. Perhaps there could be a rebuttal from organic/natural farmers. I certainly would be interested to know how to counter Aiyar’s argument.

GM foods considered safe in US, but not in India

[i]An expert panel appointed by the Supreme Court has suggested a 10-year moratorium on field trials for genetically modified (GM) crops, ending prospects of their cultivation in the foreseeable future. Chengal Reddy, secretary general of the Consortium of Indian Farmers’ Associations , has protested that this goes dead against the interest of farmers who need the higher yields and lower pesticide use of GM crops. Indian consumers too will gain from higher production and less pesticide in their food.

Activists portray GM crops as Frankenfoods , as dangerous monsters. Chengal Reddy points out that GM crops have been safely cultivated and eaten across the world for decades. The US is a litigation-happy country where lawyers launch class suits if there is even the slightest evidence of harm to citizens, yet none has brought a class suit against GM foods that are routinely eaten there.

The most widely grown GM crops, maize and soybeans, are eaten directly and used for extracting cooking oil. Above all, they are used as animal feed, penetrating the whole meat and dairy chain. Yet no evidence of harm has surfaced . Why call them monster foods?

Reddy’s court submission says that GM crops are grown over 160 million hectares in 29 countries, and imported by countries (including European ones) that don’t grow them. He says 300 million Americans, 1,350 million Chinese , 280 million Brazilians and millions elsewhere regularly eat GM foods, directly and indirectly. Why then should they be presumed to be dangerous for Indians? How is this a matter for expert committees or courts?

Europeans have voiced major fears about GM foods. Yet even Europe permits GM maize cultivation. It imports GM soymeal and maize as animal feed. Millions of Europeans visit the US and South America and eat GM foods there, without getting poisoned.

Three million Indians have become US citizens, and millions more go to the US for tourism and business. Supreme Court judges and MPs go to the US. Sonia Gandhi has gone there for treatment . Nobody holds back on the ground that they will be eating monster food in the US. How then can activists claim that GM foods are inherently dangerous and must not be cultivated in India without all sorts of clearances that are unnecessary for other crops?

An elementary principle of justice is that you must be presumed innocent till proved guilty. Indian activists want the courts to view GM crops as guilty until proven innocent. This is the logic of their proposed elaborate screening procedures, including a 10-year moratorium.

Activists argue that even if GM crops have not been proved dangerous so far, they may be in the future, and then it will be too late, so extremely careful screening is needed. This is like saying that some Muslims may be terrorists , so all Muslims must be subjected to the most extreme screening. Without extreme screening, it might prove too late to stop some actual terrorists, but can that be an argument for treating all Muslims as dangerous?
Reddy says conventional agricultural technologies have limitations and cannot solve complex problems that genetic engineering can. He is appalled that eminent Indian agricultural scientists who have guided biotech development for two decades are being put in the dock by activists and supposed “experts .” He is astonished that the court has not consulted farmers’ groups like his own.

Activists strongly opposed Bt cotton in India, and published bogus reports claiming that the crop had failed in the field. But farmers soon learned from experience that Bt cotton was very profitable, and 30 million rushed to adopt it. In consequence, India’s cotton production doubled and exports zoomed, even while using much less pesticide.

Activists and some supposed experts have the gall to claim that Bt cotton has not benefited farmers at all, only the seed companies. This is the desperate mendacity of false prophets. It is an insult to farmers to say that they are so stupid as to go wholesale for a new technology that yields them no income . Punjab farmers lease land at Rs 30,000 per acre to grow Bt cotton. Would they do so if it was unprofitable?

Finally, why is the Supreme Court in this at all? Some governments across the world have okayed GM crops and others not, but nowhere has this become a judicial issue. The Supreme Court allows public interest litigation in order to give voice to poor, powerless folk, and ensure fundamental rights. But anti-GM activists represent powerful , well-connected lobbies. US courts would dismiss as laughable the notion that GM foods violate fundamental rights of Americans. India’s Supreme Court should follow suit.[/i]


#209

(1) how practical is organic farming?

Ans: Yes it is Practicle for Small Farmers to Major Farming .Pl. Read this article and several Earmers are Proving it is Possiable with Hi-Yields and disesase FREE.In the Present Times Virous is Dangerously Spreading and this Organic Farming can arrest Virous.Pl.Read this News Clipping: “Just one cow can raise crops on 30 acres. This news article from The Hindu about Shri Subhash Palekar of Maharashtra is worth reading as he calls his method ‘zero budget farming’.  In the age of mindless and reckless chemical farming he stresses the importance of just a single cow to manage a field of upto 30 acres.  Sounds a little too much for all of us who were unfortunately brought up on industrial concepts of productivity and agriculture.
Just a cow can raise crop on 30 acres
Staff Reporter – The Hindu, Coimbatore:
Just a cow can help you raise crop in 30 acres, without any external inputs, extra water or even electricity!
Zero budget farming That is the concept of zero budget farming, says Subash Palekar, Founder of the Zero Budget Farming Movement. He is in the city to address a workshop on zero budget farming that begins on Saturday. Only zero budget farming, which was being followed by nearly 24 lakh farmers in various states, can ensure increased food production, he told reporters here on Friday. “Chemical and organic farming methods are not helping us produce as much as we need. With just 12 crore hectare cultivable land available in the country, we cannot afford to lose more land to urbanisation. Government is only promoting organic farming for producing food items meant for export. It is only aiding in increasing the world economy and not the Indian economy,” Mr. Palekar said.”

(2) is it for small farms alone or extensible to large farms?

Ans.Above is the right answer for this Question too.

(3) can higher yields be produced by organic farming over conventional methods?

Ans: If you gothrough the web you can see the Practicle Results.There are several Farmers in AP
,Tamilnadu,Karnataka,Gujarat,Maharastra,Rajastan etc. Pajapita Brahmakumaris eswariya Viswa Vidyalaya are also doing Much work on this issue as “YOGIK KHETI” and achieving GOOD Results.

(4) are the farm inputs in the market really effective?
ANS: Chemicle inputs in Market are in effective  and lost its value on storage ,Transportation,Mfg. Methods etc.But in  Organic  Farming we are the Manufacturers of the Inputs and are Natural getting from Cow Dung,Cow Urin,Cow Milk etc. which in our Hands.

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#210

I am slightly confused and need clarification on the following points:

  1. Whether cultivation of genetically modified crops outside the purview of organic farming.
  2. Cannot the genetically modified crops be cultivated organically. What prohibits such cultivation.
  3. Is it necessary that genetically modified crops  have to be cultivated only non organically.
    Siva Sankara Reddy.

#211

Hello Guys

First of all thank you Cowherd… U have shown me my path. Can you please share your contact details.

Now something about me… (im sorry im posting my intro here…will post my proper intro in the appropriate section soon)

Im a biomedical Engg by education,  Motorcycle wanderer by nature, India’s first n only manufacturer of  tattoo equipment by profession n now want to become a spiritual farmer.

I do not have any farming background, nor do i have any farmer relatives… but i have been doing my research n hopefully i shld start with my dream project soon.

I would like to volunteer myself n my farm (whenever i get it) as a pilot project to study how effective natural farming is…

my contact info is as follows
Name- Dipesh Shah
Mobile no - 09820447629/07303320555
email - wildchild826@gmail.com
www.facebook.com/dipesh.shah826


#212

Hi All,

Thanks Cowherd, Chandra, Swamy for good posts. I think the thread would have maintained same interest had the last few posts were backed up with some evidences.

My grandfather was natural farmer, they never had any chemicals to use and he could expand his 3-acre farm to 120 odd acres with 100s+ cattle. My father was semi-natural farmer, and got the farm to shrink to 25 acres with no cattle…now I am begining to be farmer with natural farming philosophy, not because of Interest but for economic & maintainence reasons…so the bottom line is it is not just the method the farmer applies but how much the farmer applies himself to the cause of it…hmmm philosophy by a Theory-farmer :wink:

I think first step to start or to start thinking about a farm is to understand ‘Why do you want to start a farm and what you intend to achieve after sometime - money, extra-money, satisfaction, timepass’, this should help us which way to choose - Chemical, Organic, Natural.

Something else now -
Any thoughts on crop failures, will this happen in both natural and chemical farming. Let me explain with example of potato farming in my village for the last five years. (year 1 and 3) 2 years farmers had bumper crop, Last year was a complete failure and two years (years 2,4) the yeild was just average(no-profile no-loss). Most of the farmers get the seed from Agra and their channel of seed & Chemicals procurement and is also some. There seems to be pattern in failure as well :slight_smile:…just FYI the farmer who did not apply any fertilizers had a average harvest even when the crop failed for others - He moved to natural farming 2 seasons back and had average potatto yeild for both the years. This did not change villagers mind this year, they are back to their old style inspite of an NGO tried to convince the villagers on alternatives to Fertilizers and Pesticides showing the profitable farmer as example…

  • Vamshi

#213

Dear Sir’s

Hope you all have read about One man one cow one planet - Peter Proctor.

warm regards
Rajesh


#214

Please watch this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=plgB6xuztlk

Perhaps this should also be linked to the other post about earning 1lakh/acre/year post also.

"Published on Oct 15, 2012 by sarathpendekanti

In this , Sri.Krishnappa Dasappa Gowda explains that , in a place of 36 ft x 36 ft he is growing 170 trees, in that he is explaining about the yield he is getting in a 9ft x 9 ft portion of land . He planted 1 Banana Tree , 4 Arekanut Trees , 4 Black pepper Creepers on Arekanut trees, 2 Coffee Plants , 2 Glirsedia Trees, 2 Venella Creepers on Glirsedia trees, 32 Ginger Plants. He says Yield frm (1) 1 Banana Tree - 10Kg X Rs.20/- = Rs. 200=00
(2) 4 Arecanut Trees - 25Kg x 4Trees x Rs.15/- = Rs.1500=00
(3) 2 Venela creepers+2Glirsedia Trees - 50grms x 2 trees x Rs.3/- = Rs. 300=00
(4) 4 Black Pepper Creepers - 1Kg x 4 x Rs.400/- = Rs.1600=00
(5) 2 Coffee plants - 2Kg x 2 Plants x Rs.80/- = Rs. 320=00
(6)32 ginger Plants - 0.15kg x 32 x Rs.100/- = (Rs. 480=00) (This is utilized for Expenses) -----------------------
Total income from 9ft x 9 ft land = Rs.3800 = 00 -----------------------
So ,for 36ft x 36 ft Total income is Approxmately Rs.18000 = 00.

So ,for 1 acre there are 33 blocks like this,Total income is Rs. 6 Lakhs (approx)

CONCLUSION : He suggests that all the farmers to follow this Natural Farming Method and reap money. Wish you all the best. He doesnt have any borewell in his farm and he says that his Land is Rain fed.

Sarath Pendekanti , Mobile : 09989853366."


#215

What would be the marketing process for all of these products? Whats is the strategy adapted?


#216

I may be going to Mysore tomorrow, is it possible to get Bannur Krishnappa’s phone number, i certainly would like to visit his farm


#217

I recommend a visit to Krishnappa’s farm to get first hand information about farming, marketing and any other related clarifications.  Krishnappa’s contact and also other natural farmers’ contacts are available at:

palekarzerobudgetspiritualfa … adress.pdf


#218

Dear Hegde,
Krishnappa residing at bannur village which is about 20 km from Mysore on the way to Malavally can be reached through 9880587545.
If you are going from Blr through Kanakapura, Malavally, you get Bannur after Malavally.
Revet with present situation of his orchard, Be prepared to travel about 1 km in paddy bunds with bare foot and enjoy with wet mud (Kesaru Mannu)


#219

Thanks Gunda for the list, i could talk to him, he receives visitors only on Sunday, he asked me to come on Sunday post 10:00AM and it would take around 2-3 hours to tour his place.

I am thinking of postponing my visit to Mysore to Sunday.  Do anyone want to join me?.

Swamy,

Thanks, i could talk to him from the list given by Gunda, same number.  Hope to visit him this weekend.


#220

Ok, so we get to see a review?  :wink: