Is Organic Farming / Natural Farming practical?

organic-farming

#181

“I accept there exist some negetivity in conventional chemical farming like toxic pesticide , fungicide and weedicide. We should devise an alternative like integrated farming system so as to avoid or minimise use of these toxic chemicals without much alteration to the detriment of human beings and evolve a better food culture to sustain ever growing indian population.”
“If any of you have technology to produce more to meet the requirement of our indian population purely thro’ organic methods, you are welcome to post your authenticated findings with threadbare details.Should accompany never failing technical details.”
"I feel if any of you want to use this forum effectively , then better you post your useful technical findings, may be of your practical experiences carrying technical nuances. So that it may benefit whoever is much interested in undertaking organic farming without creating conflict of interest among our brethren."
Dear All.
Yes, I too agree with this observation.
I have been closely following the postings in this thread for quite some time. I find that authenticity with  facts and figures  for arguments in favour of organic farming  is wanting in the discussions.  Most of the observations have been global without specifics and scientific data.
I feel the champions of organic farming have an obligation to answer the above issues raised by Mr. Ramu.
Please do not mistake me that I am against organic farming. I too am a proponent of organic farming for the simple reason that the use of chemicals in farming should be stopped and cost of farming should be reduced.
But it has to be proved and testified beyond doubt  with authentic data that  the per unit  productivity of organic farming vis a vis chemical farming is higher,  for any one to be convinced about  organic farming.
After all we have a responsibility to feed millions of mouths in our country and the only solution is to enhance the per unit productivity, considering the  limited resources available.
Siva Sankara Reddy.


#182

This is the problem with the majority of us : -seeking the so called scientific data and evidence. Even before Joseph Priestley discovered oxygen it was there but still we need proof !

The alarming rate at which fertile soils become barren due to the use of chemicals , the ill effects of indiscriminate use of pesticides ( the notorious case of endosulfan poisoning in Kasargod district of Kerala ) , the reclaiming of dead soil into lively farms by natural / organic means as reported in various agri magazines you tube videos are still not considered as valid proof by such people . I can only pity them.

Yes , we had famines and needed outside support but this happens even now with so much of technical excellence , though not on a wide  scale.  Nobody can justify the suicides of thousands of farmers who adopted modern method of farming. One of the proponents of chemical farming Mr M.S.Swaminathan himself has started advocating organic farming nowadays. He has many laurels to his credit and is in the lime light and international fame but nobody pities for the poor farmers who adopted his methods and went into debts . But still we need proof !

Whether oraganic / natural farming is beneficial or not is of secondary importance . What is more important is the deadliness of modern chemicals and fertilisers , more water requirement due to their usage etc. Green revolution alone was not the main factor in attaining food self sufficiency in our country. The building of various dams / check dams , canals , more water diversion to hitherto un-cultivated areas were also equally important reasons in achieving this goal.

The reality is glaring on our faces yet we need scientific data and statistics.


#183

Dear Mr.Varahan,
                              You are right that indiscriminate application of chemical pesticide would pollute soil environment. but to follow natural farming following are to be observed strictly
1.only native plant seeds must be sown.never use hybrid seed that means GMO plant seeds which is available now in the market as hybrid seeds. Native plants have all resistance power against insect pest and disease to certain extent but bear less where as hybrid plants lack in resistance and chemical spray is unavoidable.But it bear more
2. Natural farming lays condition that land should be left fallow for minimum period of 6 months to regain its fertility status.Growing native plants with small yield with 6 months unutilised gap is a great loss in lieu of growing something to feed hungry millions
3.To grow organic food we need lot of cow dung or cattle manure that is possible in rural economy but our urbanisation growth reached 40% that indicate none of our indian people is interested to become cowboy and they instead prefer to work in city and town even for little wage and now they hesitate to work hard in the villages. When I specifically enquired a boy in chennai and asked him" why he suffer without sufficient food in city " he replied " I never bother and can remain alive even with single meal only but I can 't live in peace without seeing these half naked girls here in city and the work is less burdensome compared to that of in village.
4.Further before I close typing this answer lacs of children would be born in india. To feed these extra population we cant increase the geographical or total area of India. so we need to produce from the same area to feed these extra.
5.one important point you all must note that when we practiced organic or natural farming some 50 years ago our life expectancy was only 28 or 30 years. but now in the modern era of chemical farming our life expectancy of indian population is nearly 70 or 75 years. It has almost doubled.
6.Necessity is mother of invention. we needed to follow chemical farming because of hunger.We should not underestimate crucial decison taken at the need of the hour in 1966-67
7.Further the suicide committed by farmers is not due to chemical farming or its impact. It is mainly due to some selfish politicians which i am not interested to go in detail.
8.Death/ health problems comes not only due to chemical farming but also due to mosquito bite which is a very menacing incidence in india and which is more harmful than chemical farming in indian scenario now.
9. In poultry they predominantly produce broiler birds purely out of synthetic chemicals in the name of hormone. could anybody think of it?
10.Almost all of us travel either by bus or own car. The automobile daily emits huge clouds of poisonous chemicals like Co, CO2, So2 etc which cause lung disease, cancer, eye defect ect.When compare this chemical farming is nothing to do with human lives
11.thousands of industries are discharging ton of poisonous metals like lead, mercury etc as effluents into river and ponds, lakes and ocean. Which in real term is life killing . How many of you protested against these.
12.Only few persons for sake of publicity raised the question of chemical pesticide as causing and posing great danger to human being.Suddenly the rest of the world entered into a heated argument about farming activities whether organic to follow or inorganic"
13.We should follow things to suit our real needs.Things coming across in dream and imagination will never work and we should not pay heed to trivial discussion like this.
14. Anyhow I appreciate your real intention and if at all you have technology to grow organic crops to feed 120 crore indian population , any such idea is appreciated . Anything said in word than in deed is least worthy and it is like croak of the frog.

Ramu


#184

I appreciate your concern for feeding the masses but the masses should have social responsibility which word is unknown to most of us Indians.


#185

[quote=“RAMU”]
Dear Mr.Varahan,
                              You are right that indiscriminate application of chemical pesticide would pollute soil environment. but to follow natural farming following are to be observed strictly
1.only native plant seeds must be sown.never use hybrid seed that means GMO plant seeds which is available now in the market as hybrid seeds. Native plants have all resistance power against insect pest and disease to certain extent but bear less where as hybrid plants lack in resistance and chemical spray is unavoidable.But it bear more
2. Natural farming lays condition that land should be left fallow for minimum period of 6 months to regain its fertility status.Growing native plants with small yield with 6 months unutilised gap is a great loss in lieu of growing something to feed hungry millions
3.To grow organic food we need lot of cow dung or cattle manure that is possible in rural economy but our urbanisation growth reached 40% that indicate none of our indian people is interested to become cowboy and they instead prefer to work in city and town even for little wage and now they hesitate to work hard in the villages. When I specifically enquired a boy in chennai and asked him" why he suffer without sufficient food in city " he replied " I never bother and can remain alive even with single meal only but I can 't live in peace without seeing these half naked girls here in city and the work is less burdensome compared to that of in village.
4.Further before I close typing this answer lacs of children would be born in india. To feed these extra population we cant increase the geographical or total area of India. so we need to produce from the same area to feed these extra.
5.one important point you all must note that when we practiced organic or natural farming some 50 years ago our life expectancy was only 28 or 30 years. but now in the modern era of chemical farming our life expectancy of indian population is nearly 70 or 75 years. It has almost doubled.
6.Necessity is mother of invention. we needed to follow chemical farming because of hunger.We should not underestimate crucial decison taken at the need of the hour in 1966-67
7.Further the suicide committed by farmers is not due to chemical farming or its impact. It is mainly due to some selfish politicians which i am not interested to go in detail.
8.Death/ health problems comes not only due to chemical farming but also due to mosquito bite which is a very menacing incidence in india and which is more harmful than chemical farming in indian scenario now.
9. In poultry they predominantly produce broiler birds purely out of synthetic chemicals in the name of hormone. could anybody think of it?
10.Almost all of us travel either by bus or own car. The automobile daily emits huge clouds of poisonous chemicals like Co, CO2, So2 etc which cause lung disease, cancer, eye defect ect.When compare this chemical farming is nothing to do with human lives
11.thousands of industries are discharging ton of poisonous metals like lead, mercury etc as effluents into river and ponds, lakes and ocean. Which in real term is life killing . How many of you protested against these.
12.Only few persons for sake of publicity raised the question of chemical pesticide as causing and posing great danger to human being.Suddenly the rest of the world entered into a heated argument about farming activities whether organic to follow or inorganic"
13.We should follow things to suit our real needs.Things coming across in dream and imagination will never work and we should not pay heed to trivial discussion like this.
14. Anyhow I appreciate your real intention and if at all you have technology to grow organic crops to feed 120 crore indian population , any such idea is appreciated . Anything said in word than in deed is least worthy and it is like croak of the frog.

Ramu
[/quote] Ramu, please study the article in the link below and come up with your fresh reply.
thehindu.com/sci-tech/agricu … 016952.ece


#186

The above statement is with out  doubt undisputable. The only moot point is whether organic farming find an answer to the growing needs of the ever growing population. This is possible only if can be proved conclusively with authentic data that organic farming can produce more than the chemical farming with in a given unit area.
Siva Sankara Reddy.


#187

Dear swamy,
                        I went thro’ an article on GM plants appeared in S& T colunm in Hindu daily. My reply goes like the following. First of all Breeding is a technique effected in plants by nature as well as artificial means. In nature cross pollination takes place by the force like wind, insect, birds,bats,cattle, water etc and it proceeds on its own speed and resulting hybrid vigour is manifested in subsequent generations but it is a slow process making changes in genetic make up. Even mutation in plants is effected by natural force like heat and chemicals secreted in plants itself leading to changes in gene , whether desirable or undesirable.For example let us take a brinjal plant. The native brinjal plants evolved over the years accumulating desirable traits in its genes to survive and protect itself from an enemy in that particular environment.Ie,the plant tries to develop spiny bristles over its leaf and stems because if any insect come and sit on the plants , the spines will scare the insect and the insect could not bite and damage or lay eggs which will otherwise hatch larvae and feed on brinjal plants causing damage.There is so much to tell but it will lead this post very lengthy subject .so I cut short. In an artificial breeding human being effect changes in genes by crossing 2 or many brinjal plants so as to bring all desirable character from too many plant variety into a single plant like high yield, seedless, more aminoacids, vitamin, minerals, resistence to pest and disese and at the same times without spines .For example in coconut , malaysian yellow dwarf plant has the capacity to bear more fruits say thousand in a single tree and early bearing in 3 years but the negetive character is it will not set kernals and life is just 25 years. Where as tall coconut tree like tiptur tall is having long life say 60 years ans good kernal set but minimum number of fruits and late bearing in 9-10 years after planting compared to dwarf plants. When these two plants are crossed a totally different variety called T*D with a best qualities of both the plants combined into a single plant, ie, more no of fruits, good kernal set, early bearing and long life say 40-50 years.This kind of breeding is artificially effected in other plants with main consideration of human well being.
Where as GMO plants are genetically modified organism with the same concept .In both case genetic make up is altered but with slight difference in terms of methods involved in changing genetic make up.
Relevant to GMO modified Bt.Cotton , I come with  points. What is Bt? why is it used in cotton or brinjal? Bacillus turingiensis is nothing but a bacillus bacteria having potential to kill worms ( Insect pest) affecting these crops as fruit borer in brinjal or boll worms in cotton.The Bt produce some toxin and specifically kill these pest when it eats plant parts. Instead of spraying many rounds of synthetic chemical pesticide to control this pest, if the specific gene producing targeted toxin present in BT is inserted into plants gene then there is a possiblity for the plants to produce the very same toxin and kill the pest when it attacks.No where the Bt concepts explained any impact on increased yield.
You see the golden rice invented in recent past which carry genes capable of producing more vitamin A in its grains.Like wise so many miracle have been created in so many economic plants in this present world.
But it is not the question of genetically altered plants here but the question of toxic chemicals used in agriculture as pesticide, fungicide and weedicide.Hybrid plants has the capacity to produce more.when output is more automatically input must also be more to meet its physiological requirement.we need more to meet the alarmingly increasing population in india.If we grow native plants only it will produce less and it also take longer duration to give yield. Native rice variety yielded in 6 months after planting. Now our farmers are reaping their produce in less than 100 days. How?.In order to supplement heavy requirement of the plant we need to apply chemical fertilizers . even we are not giving rest to the soil. Immediately after harvest of one crop we raise next crop without leaving any gap to sustain its natural fertility.When more nitrogen is applied more insect pest come and to tide over this problem farmers need to spray chemical pesticide. For that I am not advocating totally chemical farming. What I stress here is that instead of going for meeting entire nutrients requirement of the plant only with chemical fertilizers better use integrated pest management, ie, need based pesticide spray, cultural, mechanical control methods along with bio pesticide and pheromone and light trap etc. Like wise instead of totally depending upon chemical fertilizers better you reduce the quantity of chemical fertilizers and supplement the rest of the quantity thro’ cow dung, vermicompost and bio fertilizers etc. Then the hybrid crop plants will sustain its production level without health or environmental problem.In the name of organic farming practising novel idea in every level is unacceptable.People say about spraying cow urine, chilli powder and the like. some body say that chicken flesh will be cooked and its filtrate is sprayed on the plants to kill pest and disease . Of course it may have effect but is it wise practise in the 21 st century of 120 crore indian population. I ask the persons advocating purely organic farming. Some old persons like Nammalvar and his contemporary are living in this world for long time now.The green revolution , ie, chemical farming was introduced in india during 1966-67. what were they doing so far ? such a long time say 45 years now. Just in recent past these people raised this question that chemical farming is suicidal when we indian were capable of producing more than 120 million MT of food grain and become self sufficient and comfortably placed on the food front. See african countries. It is the only continent now in the world having richest natural resources in the world and rich bio diversity. But people are starving for food and the growing children are dying of starvation in large numbers. In ethiopia men eat men. See these scientist posting article in hindu daily like this can try their level best in those backward countries as of african continent and solve their food problem instead of misguiding people of half cooked knowledge.These scientist are like ptolemy who first proposed geo centric theory of our solar family until new right heliocentric theory was propounded by copernicus late afterards.I think this is enough to tell this world real fact of sustainable farming. Croaking about organic farming without understanding real concept of farming system is much despicable in my dictionary.


#188

The title of the thread is Is Organic Farming / Natural Farming practical ? So lets take one by one.  Non chemical does not necessarily mean you need to follow Natural farming only.  When people are having views against chemical farming its for the ill effect of it, not necessarily to force Natural Farming on others. 

Not sure about this, do not remember reading anything like this in Fukuoka Sans books or any other reference material.  But i think we can choose to grow anything we need, cover crops and legumes are recommended, again you should be able to choose any crop that suits you if you are able to bring in organic compost from outside. You should be able to buy these as you buy the chemical fertilizers.  Yes, farmers need to get their hands dirty here it is not that easy to handle 20-30 kgs of manure instead of say 100-200 gms of chemicals.

This may not be totally true, now we also get organic supplements,  and thinks like Jeevamrutha, Panchagavya etc etc bottled.  Even though its easy to get it done at the farm itself, you still can buy it outside.  Over the years you could move to Natural Farming…

These quotes are based on the assumption that chemical farming yields more isn’t it.    As we have for chemical farming, there are lots of study that says Organic Farming can yield more and better quality food.

There are some places where i have seen coconut , arecanut, paddy and ragi grown in organic way beats the chemical way hands down.  Seen  coconut trees yielding 600 + nuts whereas chemical tree average is 100+ only.  Now, i need no convincing to say and practice Organic Farming. 

Does that justify Chemical farming?.

Very true, but that is different space,  for now, can we limit our discussion to only farming?  I do not want to argue that if govt really decides they can enforce the existing law to purify the water before discharge and for the chemical residue from farm we can’t even do that.

Ha ha ha … you are almost saying that proponents of organic farming and those who practice organic farming are doing it blind folded?.  I think its other way round,  Those who are really practicing organic farming have done it after due diligence.  I am organic, moving towards Natural Farming as i believe it would be better.

Hmmmm.  Exactly that is the point.

Do you mind sharing your farming experience,  it helps to understand your point of view better.  Have you tried going organic and failed? Why do you think Organic cannot produce more? when there are people producing more in Organic way.

As you rightly said above, there are lots of people who do not want to do farming, but want to do any job in the city, they do not want to dirty their hands with mud, dung etc.  When i was talking to my farm help, he was explaining me in similar way,  you can just buy fertilizers from the market, and put it to our trees, it does not require much work, no need to dirty anything and how difficult it is to prepare your own compost.  But then do we want to do chemical farming for that reason?.  On a lighter note, i think we have lots of tools that can be used for these now, you really do not have to dirty your hands.

Now about 120 crore Indians,  for the sake of argument, if i give a number that X amount of food is being wasted in marriages, it would not help anyone right, its just another number and are much more to it than just the food quantity.  We may want to focus our discussion about growing for now.


#189

Dear hegdegg,
                      Now I am running 43.but my experience in farming speaks well of around 38 years. I started organic farming when I was 5 years old.Really we never used chemical fertilizers . we only used organic means like cowdung, green leaf manure and when we use these things soil microbes and earthworm automatically build up its own population in soil. nothing more to elaborate on this. Almost we avoided chemical pesticide too. We never used weedicide.I spent most of my days in my own field and engaged in agriculture. I also studied B.Sc. Agriculture while I deliberately rejected MBBS course even after I had been selected for the medical course on merit because of my devout interest in agriculture.At present also I am working for state agriculture department as officer.Before entering govt job I have put up my best service in private agriculture industries like sugar factory and private farms for over 15 years both in karnataka and tamilnadu.I know threadbare about farming system both practical and theoretical. I also read about farming system practiced around the world. I know all pro and cons involved in both organic and conventional cultivation. To deliberate on farming system one need to understand not only agriculture practices and packages but all complicated and interlinked parameter involved in agriculture like geographical position, soil edaphic factors, climatology, plant physiology ,all about operational secrets of microbes and earthworm and its differential behaviour in different environment.Almost majority of the farmnest forum members speaks on farming system based on the theoretical knowledge acquired thro’ reading of books and hearing stories from neighbour.Ok.rationale in thinking rightly will alone help people understand.to tell the fact so far I have gained the contact of over 20,000 farmers in my life time so far and i have directly seen their cultivation methods and studied the result in compaction and came to a definite conclusion. I think I further need no reference to corroborate my findings with somebody who purely speak out of theoretical knowledge. Sorry these are all boring subject to discuss on a particular subject without pucca evidence.
Anyhow I appreciate your interest in organic farming.If it is your interest to pursue it , then it is no problem.As for as myself is concerned I never speak of those who are well off with 3 meals a day with comfortable earnings in life either thro’ service or business or farming. I am always concerned about those people who could not afford to get even a single full meal a day, lying all thro’ night awake in pinching and paining stomach.I never concern about 80 crore indian people who eats organic tasty food daily but I am really concerned about those who struggle to get even a cup of gruel.So my level of thinking about indian farming system never ever fit into your discussion.
Let you proceed on your heated discussion …

Ramu   


#190

[color=brown]Mod Note to all:
Stick to the topic please. It does not help to say I am right because my experience is great, nor to say the majority of the members are theoretical and ignorant unless you can prove it with details of their profiles and experience.

Let us limit ourselves to whether organic methods work or not in practice, and why or why not; than make generic statements based on assumptions that they do or do not work, with high sounding jargon thrown in.

Tell us your substantiated case studies where it worked and where it did not.

Thanks.[/color]


#191

Ramu,

Please itemize your posts. All your effort put into writing lengthy passages will be lost as they not be read by most - I for one have begun reading and given up after the first few lines.


#192

[quote=“RAMU”]
Dear hegdegg,
                      Now I am running 43.but my experience in farming speaks well of around 38 years. I started organic farming when I was 5 years old.Really we never used chemical fertilizers . we only used organic means like cowdung, green leaf manure and when we use these things soil microbes and earthworm automatically build up its own population in soil. nothing more to elaborate on this. Almost we avoided chemical pesticide too. We never used weedicide.I spent most of my days in my own field and engaged in agriculture. I also studied B.Sc. Agriculture while I deliberately rejected MBBS course even after I had been selected for the medical course on merit because of my devout interest in agriculture.At present also I am working for state agriculture department as officer.Before entering govt job I have put up my best service in private agriculture industries like sugar factory and private farms for over 15 years both in karnataka and tamilnadu.I know threadbare about farming system both practical and theoretical. I also read about farming system practiced around the world. I know all pro and cons involved in both organic and conventional cultivation. To deliberate on farming system one need to understand not only agriculture practices and packages but all complicated and interlinked parameter involved in agriculture like geographical position, soil edaphic factors, climatology, plant physiology ,all about operational secrets of microbes and earthworm and its differential behaviour in different environment.Almost majority of the farmnest forum members speaks on farming system based on the theoretical knowledge acquired thro’ reading of books and hearing stories from neighbour.Ok.rationale in thinking rightly will alone help people understand.to tell the fact so far I have gained the contact of over 20,000 farmers in my life time so far and i have directly seen their cultivation methods and studied the result in compaction and came to a definite conclusion. I think I further need no reference to corroborate my findings with somebody who purely speak out of theoretical knowledge. Sorry these are all boring subject to discuss on a particular subject without pucca evidence.
Anyhow I appreciate your interest in organic farming.If it is your interest to pursue it , then it is no problem.As for as myself is concerned I never speak of those who are well off with 3 meals a day with comfortable earnings in life either thro’ service or business or farming. I am always concerned about those people who could not afford to get even a single full meal a day, lying all thro’ night awake in pinching and paining stomach.I never concern about 80 crore indian people who eats organic tasty food daily but I am really concerned about those who struggle to get even a cup of gruel.So my level of thinking about indian farming system never ever fit into your discussion.
Let you proceed on your heated discussion …

Ramu   
[/quote] Ramu,
Are you practically doing farming?
If yes, which is your farming method?
What are all the Pacca results/yeilds of your farming?.
What is the benefit/strategy of your level of farming to fit Indian farming system?
Since you are concerned about 40 crores out of 120 crore, how many people you are feeding in that 40 crore?
You know if any one have not done/doing anything to any one including 40 crores, no one including you have no right to speaking about such people ?
You know Every one is the builder of their own fate?

If you want to see the results of Natural Farming, then you visit to this farmer -A. K. Netaji (Paddy Local) Ph- 0441-26330217, 09940267627. Vil- Angadu, Post- Budur, TK- Ponneri, Dt- Tirruvallur who is in your locality itself and then come back with your experience with his farming method.

Can you provide any farmers contacts who is following your farming practice to know his way of farming?
All we are eagerly awaiting your feed back and the farming practice to feed our self first and think others next.


#193

Dear swamy!
                          I will come with figure and fact with explanation to any kind of queries.I do not think I need any one advice I am placed in tiruvallur.I am seeing all farming activities from gummidipoondi to pallipet , both conventional and organic cultivation with all crops from cereals and pulses to fruits and vegetables and also oil seeds. Not only this particular tiruvallur area but right from kanyakumari to bidar in north karnataka. I have figure of yield details on hand for individual crops in various locations and performance of different crops in different location.If you have authenticated information about organic production of agriculture crops better you post that details carrying comparative study of yield and quality statistics between organic and inorganic crops.Just pointing to somebody here and there will not help anybody anyway.
It has become a comedy now that people applying cow dung used to boast of themselves as an organic expert
You see if soil is fertile enough you need not fertilize the field for producing particular crop. Because the carrying capacity of the soil will be more in this case. So also if soil is bad enough say saline or alkaline or sodic whatever fertilizer you apply the crop will not grow and come up successful. what you people know about organic farming is compost, vermicompost, bio fertilizers etc. these inputs are all used in conventional farming.
You people read so many books devoted to cowdung and all.After reading the books you are convinced that you have become an organic expert and make visit to somebody’s farm and on seeing plants looking green , you come to a conclusion that this crop performs well due to organic farming and one fine morning when gathered in tea shop for casual chating , for honor sake the person who grow organic crop would say he obtained so much in organic production and the others would pay heed to such a trivial things.Then there comes a history of success story build up to mislead others.
So I need not enquire enybody.If you have any authenticated details please post that in this forum.Then I will come with necessary details with figure and facts.
Also I ask you one simple question.Will the earthworm proliferate in all soil condition in the same rate of growth ie, alluvial, black, laterite,sand,laomy,clay,sodic and calcareous soil types.
If anybody say anything in book will you believe in toto?
I really say I am very much concerned about these 40 crore hunger srticken poor people . I strongly believe I have directly and indirectly contributed to feeding atleast part of these 40 crore people. I never croaked like an organic expert with selfish motive of earning false fame and name
A person boasting himself as an organic expert say the production cost is 30% lesser than conventional production but the same person says the selling price is 200 % more compared to conventional produce.
So my dear swamy! I dont want to engage myself in useless deliberation. If at all you have any data on hand please post it with every minute deatails bearing location, soil type, irrigation source,extent, name of the crop, variety,season of planting, duration, cost of cultivation with kind of organic inputs and quantity used, yield of the crop harvested etc.You please post these details then let us discuss who is the real champion.

Ramu


#194

Appreciate your introduction.

Assume you are not bound by your employer to talk for Chemical farming, unlike Sikkim, after all your govt is trying to do so much to farmers (or to chemical industry ?) by providing fertilizers and subsidy on that.

Appreciate that, i am sure farmnest members would like to be benifitted by your knowledge. I am sure, people on the forum follow non-organic and organic way too, your knowledge when shared with corroborative evidence will help either of the two.

Sure thing, all of us are trying the same, some have better understanding and some little less. Let us take an example: take a villager, he would just go by prevailing practice in that area (i am talking about a small fraction who does this), organic or non organic, point to note here is he still manages to get the produce from his farm.  Apart from the knowledge, it the ground work which is also important.

Ah…this is defaming forum members, can i request you to avoid these type of statements, this neither helps you or me or anyone in the forum.  By the way, i am not for me versus you type of debate, all my (and i would like to include all farmnest members) interest is to learn and share the knowledge that we acquired while doing various activities in farming.  We can always agree to disagree, while we abstain from making these allegations. Can’t we?

Sincere thanks to Moderator for already reprehending the act.

Rationale in thinking …sure thing.  You may want to share the information rather than just saying that you have concluded, as a farmer ( organic or otherwise) we would not go by just your conclusion right?. this is the time to provide the information, just like the way you were asking for Organic Farming data.

I might have to remind you, that you are writing on a forum by practicing farmers and farm enthusiasts.  Again its a opportunity to share your knowledge, with data of-course.

I am sure, readers of this thread feel the same. Please take time to provide this evidence.

Sure thing…thanks.

We were talking about organic way of farming or other wise, as of now these are off the topic.

By the way, Sikkim has gone fully organic  sikkim.gov.in/MISC/EXTRAS/or … ission.pdf and they have comprehensive plan for the same. Do you think now Sikkim will go hungry?

Interesting study, though dated its relevant worldwatch.org/node/4060. People may want to see some figure of India being quoted here, productivity is 20% more than chemical farming.  Global data shows 20% less production but that will really be set aside if you consider the facts like what Boovarhan mentioned.

Hmmm my intention was to have healthy discussion, i am not for heated arguments …words should speak for you isn’t it?


#195

Dear Dr.Swamy
                            Whatelse I can do other than laughing at recent post. See sikkim is a least populated state in India with population of just 6.1 lac, 0.05% of geographical area, population density of 86 and total cultivable area of around 83,000 ha.Further it is one of the rich bio diversity area, climatically different from us.The productivity in sikkim is between 1300-1500 kg/ha in case of rice.
Here question does not arise whether they follow organic farming or not. If you go thro’ the statistics of sikkim state , yourself will drop the idea of discussion. Dont merely follow video postings or something like that. better you come to present reality.

Have a good day swamy

Ramu 


#196

Unfortunately there is no commercial body / MNC / Govt body interested in publishing such data . The govt and MNCs with their vested interests turn a blind eye to non chemical methods of farming. The so called scientists / academicians / govt. officials follow suit. But the change is happening at the grass roots level / farmer level.


#197

Dear Mr.Varahan !
                                  We are happy to note that you are much interested in organic agriculture. You people must understand one thing . nobody no where criticized organic farming.Everybody knows about organic farming and its advantages.There is no doubt at all. so coming to core points as Dr. Chandra denoted in his comments whether organic farming is practicable or not. So just limit your discussion to the question in matter. If practicable say yes. If not practicable say no. And you need to substantiate you point either for or against. If practicable you must quote your points with authenticated case history in Indian context only . where organic cultivation is being followed and for which crops,what are the complete package of practices followed in each crop, what is extent of organic farming, whether this farming system is being followed by majority of the farmers in a particular location, what is the yield realization thro’ organic farming, whether they used native seed variety or hybrid seeds, whether it is a food crop or commercial crop, what is the actual cost of cultivation, whether they used own resource inputs or borrowed organic inputs, whether the yield of organic produce of particular crop is same every where under every different environmental conditions and what is the real advantage or organic production against that of conventional farming conducted and studied on the same perspective as of organic production methods.
Unless you bring specific details in support of your statement , nobody will pay any heed. You can post any theoretical story or history about organic farming with much generalized statement.Otherwise crying about organic farming is like croaking of frog.

Ramu


#198

Dear cowherd,

i read all your post , it is really excellent , i am your fan now, i am telling from my heart , people like you will encourage more natural farming farmers , we need more organic food , our new generation all are eating food with full of poison and harmful chemicals,  even milk is not pure. i am starting a commercial dairy farm but i am want it to be in organic way , so that atleast i can give something to the society which is pure for our children to drink . Dear sir please keep in touch my email address is deepakmenon82@gmail.com , hope to get more advice from you on dairy farming also.
Regards

Deepak Menon


#199

Have you published such data in this forum or did I miss you ? So far I don’t remember seeing any data / statistics from you , correct me if I am wrong or forgetful.
Pointing to somebody is to have practical and hands on experience and to verify data so that you yourself can have " authenticate data ". If I were you , I won’t miss to have an interaction and verify the facts.

You may go thro’ this link for authenticated proof : ( I think you won’t suspect The Hindu’s authenticity )

thehindu.com/sci-tech/agricu … 016949.ece

If the agricultural universities offer degrees to such " cow dung users ", you won’t be having any objection to accepting them as “experts” , am I right ?

As you know there is a saying in our mother tongue which roughly translates to " Even if the river is full of water , the dog has to lick to drink water " . Likewise even if the soil is more than saturated with nutrients , the plants will assimilate what is just needed and nothing more. I am pretty sure , being an agricultural degree holder and practical expert , you already know this.

I thought this forum was for practicing farmers exchanging practical knowledge. From your post I have to conclude that members other than you are arm chair bookish farmers with no practical knowledge and what the say , express are just and mere theory. You alone are the practical farmer having been successful with chemical farming while the other members are not-so-successful even in their theoretical world. For God’s sake don’t generalise such things and insult other practicing members.

I don’t know whether earth worms proliferate in such soils but what I know is they thrive in my clayey farm ( which were not found when the previous owner used chemicals ) in Ariyalur district and I came to understand that they thrive in frosting conditions too in Europe and US as stated by members of some other fora.
Books are just the starters, just they provide us a base and we have work ourselves , apply our minds and hearts , observe nature and modify things to be successful. Being an agri graduate you should be knowing this pretty well than me and this is the reason why the agri universities provide field work for their students.

One off the topic remark : From your posts I have to conclude that either you have failed in organic / natural farming or have a superiority complex in practicing chemical farming. For me , I am not carried away by any such thing . Failures can occur in any kind of farming . The forum is not a place to wage a war to determine the supremacy of particular kind of farming but to share practical experiences between members . In my opinion I am not an expert in any kind of farming but I am making a try with natural farming which I find is the least expensive / most profitable .

One thing I appreciate in you is your concern for the poor and needy . This one virtue of you makes you great in my eyes.


#200

Well done Mr.Varaahan. Glad you finally agreed that you are trying natural farming ,that is you have been experimenting with organic farming. Right that is nice of you. It is a challenge for you now to record all your farming activities right from the beginning till harvest. You should not give up your enthusiasm to continue/ pursue your genuine interest in organic farming. Because though you know the least about farming at least your effort is great in learning things.Gather as much information as possible to support your farming practices and come out with fact to post in this same forum sometime late after your harvest.

I think you act in haste. refer your statement that earth worm was found even in your cley soil. I am not talking about just the presence of earthworm in soil but the population and growth rate which is not uniform in every kind of soil.

Further  God has created the dog with one mouth.pity them .it needs to lick water even when river is flooding. But same god has given multiple mouth for plants , ie huge volume of feeding roots which pierce like nail even concrete surface to suck and lick every pinch of water in need,

Agriculture University admit only those who qualify thro’ merit whatever he may be, either cow dung user or scavenger or beggar or something like but certainly will not admit fool

Further the article in hindu daily narrates about tribal people leaving their previous occupation like collecting forest produce to eke out their day to day living in favour of farming activities where they used native rice seeds . To sustain native plants growth cow dung and neem product is enough. Further SRI method is a new technology. it has nothing to do with either organic or conventional method of growing crops.

Wherever you go and talk about anything on any subject but without fact and figure it would not help you either way.

I sincerely wish you all sucess in your new experiment.

Ramu